Jayne  00:00

It's that moving away from that need to fit in to what everyone else is doing. And it's bringing in the ability to stand up for yourself and question and say no and fall on your face and get back up with pride rather than being embarrassed that you may or may not be as good as or the same as everyone else.

Will:  00:28

Welcome to Group Fitness Real Talk, the podcast about what Instructors need to know in 2022 and beyond. And today, I have a very special guest, Jayne Nicholls, who is an international fitness presenter, a business owner and the founder of Fitness Freestyle Yoga. Now, Jayne, we're going to be talking about being extraordinary later in this podcast. And I'm going to leave the definition of what that means for a while. But what I'd love to hear from you, and I'm sure our listeners would love to hear is your background and fitness. Tell me, how did that all get started?

Jayne  00:57

Okay, so I'm gonna just spew all of this out, because it's quite a long history now. So I came out of University with a degree in dance and English and...

Will:  01:10

Dance and English separately, or all together? 

Jayne  01:14

English, it was two. It was when this was a time when degrees where you could do absolutely anything you wanted to. And I did an English major and dance minor, or was it the other way around? And, you know, you must ask the question, what can you do with that in the real world? So it was either journalism, and then a friend of mine worked in a gym, I got dragged into it. And I started teaching group exercise. And that was the absolute beginning. At the same time, fitness professionals were coming over from Australia, and creating an industry out of a hobby, really. And I got bitten straightaway. It was in the City of London at Cannon City, and presenters started to pop up and I thought I'd have a bit of that and started...

Will:  02:05

Wait, so you started your career at Cannon City? That's so crazy. That was the very first place that I taught when I came to London in 2007, as well. I tell you.

Jayne  02:18

It was the place everyone went to. It was the place. Who was the coordinator when you came, Will?

Will:  02:26

Jenny Jolliffe was the head I think was the coordinator and head when just passed over to Matt Traxton kind of in my first year.

Jayne  02:35

No, see, this is how we link, you see, that your entry -- Did you come over with Les Mills?

Will:  02:41

I didn't. I came over with just with me. But I was teaching Les Mills at Cannon city.

Jayne  02:45

As you entered the door of Cannon City, I was being booted out the door by Matt Thraxton. 

Will:  02:54

Previous podcast guest, Matt Thraxton.

Jayne  02:56

Matt Thraxton is my nemesis. He is. So Matt came in and we were king and queen and whatever I'd been on that timetable at Cannon city, we ruled Cannon City. Matt Thraxton walked in and just cut me off the timetable. Let me tell you, that I always refer to this in when I speak to people and when I teach this time in my career, and it was so pivotal. So it was when Les Mills came in, and we I always refer to it when a juggernaut is coming towards you, you've got choices, you can either get on board, jump out the way, or get killed and Matt Thraxton really is the metaphor for that metaphor, because he he put me at that junction in my career. So let's backtrack.

Will:  04:03

Yeah, I feel like we jumped ahead quite a little bit. So what what was the first class you taught? What was the very first genre that you were teaching?

Jayne  04:11

Well, I taught all of the classes aerobics, body conditioning. I can't remember which came those probably aerobics because they came straight out of ETN. But as a presenter, the first thing I did was slide.

Will:  04:25

I was actually just watching a video that had slide on it. That was before my time, I have to say. 

Jayne  04:36

But it was the way in, it was the foot in the door and I did love it. But what I really wanted to do was step.

Will:  04:42

Can you describe for the listeners who may or may not recognize slide exactly what slide was as a class. I'd love to hear you describe it.

Jayne  04:50

Okay, so the slide is imagine a piece of shiny fabric that you would be able to slide upon. Because let's do it first it's about, I would say it's about five foot long. And then there's a stopper at each end. So this is only slidable if you put imagine a shower cap on each of your feet, so it was an attractice thing to do.

Will:  05:19

Tied up with a little string and bow effectively.

Jayne  05:22

So you've got a shack up on each day, and you would just slide to slide and try and get them both pivot, cha cha cha, and at some point without killing yourself, it was just great fun, it's quite a good workout

Will:  05:36

It is, because you're basically squatting for the entire time, right? Because in order to slide across, you have to kind of sink down into the legs.

Jayne  05:42

Yeah, you do. And also totally nothing functional about it whatsoever, unless you turn to the side and try to fun on it. It was a bizarre thing. And obviously, it was short lived, it wasn't so much a fad. Someone called Linda Raynor was queen of slide. And I came up and work for a slide company and went around doing all the training. But it wasn't what I wanted to do. At that time, I was thinking I'm gonna take step on, because the fortunate thing about and we're jumping again. So let me just quickly backtrack...

Will:  06:21

I mean, that's all we do on this podcast, don't worry, we always get back on track eventually.

Jayne  06:27

Let's get this, build the proper picture. So as soon as we started presenting, I started working with Fit Pro. And I also became sponsored by Nike. So we created a team, and we were Nike fitness athlete. And that was such a great thing. And that's where we were, we'll come back to about the extraordinary, because at that time, we had the luxury of huge brands being interested in the fitness industry, and want because it was a new industry, they wanted to get their foot in the door. So they they they use the likes of us to push their product.

Will:  07:04

In a time before social media when instructors maybe had more influence just by virtue of being up in front of a group of people, right?

Jayne  07:10

Yeah, we kind of early influence, in a way, it's really strange. But they gave us that platform to do it. And that gave us confidence. And in doing so I mean, we traveled the world with Nike. And we did amazing, amazing things. And when you're doing amazing things, with an amazing company, it's much more easy to be amazing. Rather than if we come back to the crux of why we're here, rather than all struggling to be amazing on a platform of people who can just tell you they're amazing without, as I'm sure we've all we've all experienced on social media. So being with Nike was, it was just an amazing, amazing time, probably the reason that I'm not married or don't have children. Because there was so much better many better things to do at the time, but these companies, so and we were sponsored by Red Bull, and we were sponsored by other people along that line. And this was all during my time at Cannon's, where we were flying high as what in what has been called freestyle. And a lot of people that listen to this, they weren't around in the freestyle era, they don't know that you used to walk into a studio and make it up as you go along.

Will:  08:37

Right? Yeah. Like, I guess there's people listening to this, who potentially have never really known of that as a as, like, a way of teaching classes. So describe for me a little bit what you consider to be freestyle versus pre-choreographed or pre-designed like, for anyone here who has come in through the Les Mills route, or through Zumba, or through something that's pre-programmed and prepackaged, what what what is freestyle in your mind?

Jayne  09:03

So let me give you the best example. At Cannon City, which we both know, the manager was Ian Mountainy. He went on to open the Reebok club. He called me into his office one day and he said, have you seen this thing that's come out in America? It's called a step. I think we should do it. So we actually built steps out of wood. Yeah. And we put them in the studio and he said, we've got the steps, now go out and teach the class. Yeah. And that is how I taught myself and the people of Cannons to teach step.

Will:  09:39

Right, so this is this is before they were even classes to teach you how to teach step. This was literally just here's an aparatus, go for it.

Jayne  09:46

Yeah. So we and then we created the course. Yeah, and then we you know, we went out I mean, we probably created step in the UK and then people like myself, Michael Steele went on to kill it. Because we just got crazy. We were doing stupid things. The more people during the step era, if I had a pound for every one that I put off exercise for life, I'd be multimillionaire.

Will:  10:13

Oh, no, that's terrible. That's out. That's the motto, we have a SH1FT, is fitness for life. You say you put them off, explain to me how you put them off. I'm really curious.

Jayne  10:21

Because it was so complex. I trained as a dancer...

Will:  10:26

So we're doing the full like step ball change, twist over the top touch down.

Jayne  10:30

Underneath, with a backflip as you go around. And I don't care if you can't do it. If you can't do it just step touch.

Will:  10:38

Yeah. We'll catch you around on the on the 32 count.

Jayne  10:43

Yeah, I mean, they were great, heady days, and it was a small percentage that just lived for it. That's the difference as well. The passion was so high. There was a market for it. Yeah.

Will:  10:58

There's actually a really interesting, this is a little bit of an aside, but we can maybe put it in the show notes. There's a a guy in America and he does a thing called Hip Hop extreme step. It's either called Hip Hop extreme or the step in the name somewhere. But he's this really muscular black guy, super funky, and he doesn't do super complicated choreo. But his classes look amazing. He teaches in big warehouses, and they're like full of two or 300 people. And it's that kind of energy, right? Like people loved step at its height it was it was absolutely beloved within the industry.

Jayne  11:29

Wasn't it? Because this one is functional. And I used to do one to drum and bass. And you know, drum and bass has got that running, you've got that slow running. And on all the entire class, we would do the choreography, but you'd be kind of jogging through it to this drum and bass. And it was it was like a drug, it was just the best thing if you could do it.

Will:  11:53

Which was a limiting factor. Yes.

Jayne  11:55

And it was a limiting factor. And we were so stupidly young and naive and rude.

Will:  12:02

But there was a general, like, a general approach. And this was definitely still the case when I came into fitness. And fortunately, it's something that's changed as because it was also a very young industry, right, like back in the time it could be think that the 80s was when when sort of gyms and fitness sort of took off in a big way in a commercial way. So like in the 90s, it's still pretty young. And there was definitely a go hard or go home mentality, which was you know, you come in and you do the class. If you can't do the class, well, then maybe you shouldn't be here. And like, it's a completely different mindset to what it was, it was actually a mindset that I thrived in, like I loved. I wanted, I wanted to go to class, and I wanted to be the one at the front doing the highest kicks and the biggest sort of stuff. But I was also you know, 18 When I started, I had a much different approach to the world of fitness and the importance of fitness when I was that age to what I do now.

Jayne  12:50

But this is also my other point that also matched the zeitgeist of that time, it was Sacha Thatcher's era. And it was that time where it was like, I will see it and grab it. Take it, capitalize on it, make more, make more, make more. So you know, go hard, go home. If my teacher had said go home. No, you go home. And then we'll become firm friends. Whereas it became impossible to say go hard or go home in fitness  for fear of offending someone which took on the zeitgeist of the millennial era.

Will:  13:32

So the how long so take us back to the international presenting. So were you presenting step all different modalities? 

Jayne  13:41

My biggest were step and aerobics? Yeah, they were my things. And the faster the better for me. People used to call me pocket rocket. I used to hate back then, but I wish someone would call me that now. Yes, how funny. Aerobics were my main thing. And also, I knew from day one that I wanted to educate. I always wanted to change things for the better and pass on that change. So I never wanted to do the same thing. And I never really I've talked about this a lot before. I never was in it for the chocolate medal. Do you understand?

Will:  14:25

For participation?

Jayne  14:26

Well, no, it's something that Rachel and Rachel Holmes and I the title cultivated. You'll note this you know, sometimes when presenters get up on stage, it becomes about presenting and being adored. And that never interested me.

Will:  14:42

Yeah, we've talked about this on the podcast but I have to admit, I hold my hand up part of the reason that I got into it is because it wasn't so much that I that I wanted to be adored but I certainly had a bit of an ego that I enjoyed being, I enjoyed being at the front and showing people how it's done. And that is something that like, definitely fueled my motivation to, like pursue through the industry. And it made like, it wasn't all a bad thing, because I think I was delivering really good classes, and it made me want to be really, really good. And it was a time when it's when, you know, before social media, when I was watching the best in the industry thinking, I want to be like them. And I want to do those opportunities, and it made me much better. But it's it's definitely a different mindset to sort of what I have now and also just a different mindset to the industry, because of the way fitness is delivered now. It's like there's so many different ways that people can access it. And the way you kind of visually look, or your social media account is so much more important than it used to be. It used to just be about like how good your class, how good your connection, how good your charisma and that was it. It didn't matter if you had a big following, or if you looked good in appear of sort of leggings.

Jayne  15:50

It's so true. And you see that's evolved and evolved and evolved until it's become a bit of a problem, isn't it. And I don't think there's anything wrong with having an ego that wants to get up and be in front of those people. So I don't know about you in real life. But I'm quite shy in real life. But what I found from being a presenter is what I didn't like, is the aftermath of that with, you know, still to this day, if you're on a course with me, you can call me any day of the week, and I will talk to you for an hour if you want to talk about the course. But I don't want to talk around that I don't like all the things that go with it. Got it, you know, the you know, leave it at the front door. I have a friend now that that keeps telling people they're wrong. All the time. It's so weird. And I said, I learned in my career, that you know, you can think that you're the best, actually, you can know that you're the best. But the day that you start behaving like you're the best is the day that it's all over. Yeah. And that's why this, this industry has been so kind to me, and why it's been financially rewarding and professionally rewarding. Because if the chocolate medal was what people wanted, the money and everything else about creating a business was up for grabs. And for some reason, maybe it was just time and place, it became very easy for us to set up a business and just keep ramping that business forward, more and more and more, which is my interest.

Will:  17:27

Right. So that actually brings us quite nicely into what I wanted to talk about was. So tell me a little bit about the business that you are now and also Freestyle Fitness Yoga and how that works in with the other things that you do around training, because I was I was reviewing your website before, but I'd much rather that rather than me give a downlow on what I read you explain to our listeners exactly what it is that your businesses and how you came up with the Freestyle Fitness Yoga concept.

Jayne  17:55

So as this ties in beautifully, you've asked that question at just the right time. So along with presenting, you remember I said and always wanted to change things and educate. I started doing a lot of educational workshops. So the business that I had with Rachel Holmes, which was Athletes in Action, we did quite a lot for Nike, we did quite a lot for Fit Pro. And the next progression for that for me was to start providing qualifications. And again at that point that was quite easy to do. So I hooked up with Active IQ, and started providing I think it was exercise to music was the first one.

Will:  18:40

Gold old ETM.

Jayne  18:41

And it still and you know what it is really I didn't believe in the universe and all that shit that we talked about. But still today, ETM is my most popular and most saleable qualification. 

Will:  18:56

Ah, really? That's interesting. 

Jayne  18:57

Yeah. Yeah. So there's something there's an authenticity there that goes hand in hand, but it's my it was my personal my passion. So I started doing qualifications and that's where Group X Training is now we've moved it and the majority of what I do is online qualifications. So at this time, Rachel Holmes are not going on tour twice a year, presenting master classes or workshops. And in the year 2000 Just Pilates and Yoga were really starting to emerge. In our ignorance with that ego ramping high, it was like Well, one of us does yoga, one of us does Pilates and we just picked which one and then we created this thing. I don't know what it was that allow that made us do that. But we we went on tour she did a version of Pilates and I did a version of yoga, and we loved it. So we created a pro a brand called Equilibrium, which failed. And that was how Freestyle Fitness Yoga and Fitness Pilates was born.

Will:  20:06

Interesting. So like, take me back to the failure, because I think that like I, as someone who has started a business and who, like is now finding a little bit easier, it was really extremely hard. And I think it's quite useful, especially now that you've obviously found success in what it turned into. Tell me a little bit about like what Equilibrium was and why you think it failed, just because I think these stories are the kind of stories that people often don't talk about. But they're really important for people to understand, not to get disheartened when something doesn't work, because it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Jayne  20:37

Oh, god no. Failures are the best thing ever. Yeah, totally. So this failure work can tell you exactly why it failed, because we were ignorant. So we thought, okay, Pilates and Yoga go hand in hand, it's this new, softly, softly thing. Actually Pilates and yoga, just keep smashing one another in the face, you cannot put them together successfully. So Rachel would be saying, right, I want you to pull your navel to spine, and I would get up and say, don't put your navel into your spine, that's ridiculous. And then she'd be saying breathing through your nose and out through your mouth. And I'd be saying breathe in through your nose and out through your nose. Everything we said clashed. Got it. It just didn't make sense. And the bizarre thing was, if you then fast track, it'd be about 10 years ago, that we created, Nova a program called Unite that turned into Nova for Virgin Active, which was exactly what Equilibrium was meant to be. But obviously, that was so many more years down the line, but we knew the products inside out. And we couldn't do it.

Will:  21:42

Yeah and people people were more, more open to sort of blended formats. And I guess things like body balance, and in the States, Pyo and other things that like warmed people up to the concept of because they do kind of go together and that it's it's a similar type of person that is attracted to that type of workout, right? Like there are certain similarities. But I can understand particularly coming from a purist background when when genres were a little bit more separated out. You're trying to create an education around it, right? Because education is...

Jayne  22:10

Yeah. But it was also at the time that Rachel and I was splitting up from the business because our personalities, we were so different, then we became the same person. And then we were becoming different again. So it was a good time. It was good that we did that. And it was good that we split it. At the time, Dean Hodgkin had come out with a program called Fitness Yoga. So I couldn't use that title. Yeah. I've got a business called Freestyle Fitness. Yeah. So I took the name Freestyle Fitness Yoga and put it onto my yoga program.

Will:  22:46

And tell me a bit about, sorry, tell me a little bit about how this I was reading about it before. So I've kind of got a bit of a background, but tell our listeners, like the sort of precepts of this freestyle fitness yoga, like, what is it that is definitional about your delivery and your style versus what other people might think of as yoga?

Jayne  23:06

Okay, so how it differs from traditional yoga is it is completely contemporary. And it was created for the fitness instructor. So you have to be qualified to level two and have vocational experience. And it takes the physical yoga postures, strips them of everything that means anything.

Will:  23:28

The Indian sort of names.

Jayne  23:31

There's no Sanskrit and I'm like, body balance. I wouldn't also allow sounds quick translation, because even then I did believe, respectfully, that if you want to use the language of yoga, you must trying to teach yoga.

Will:  23:44

Right. And yoga has like a pretty standard training style, too, right? Like it's the 200 hours through an approved trainer and all that sort of thing.

Jayne  23:54

It was. You see, I dispute that massively. Yeah, the 200 and 500 hours was actually created about 30 years ago now. And it was put in place at that point, to make sure that people just didn't walk off the street and teach yoga. Yep. So that was the minimal hours that it was that you had to go on a course and practice for. But I mean, at that point, there was no worldwide web. Yeah, let alone anything else. So that you must say that, that that to our 200 hour rule is so old, it doesn't really make any sense. It doesn't hold its head up anymore.

Will:  24:36

What I'm hearing from you is that it's because it's designed for the fitness industry, with that in mind with the principles of yoga like I get the idea of doing 200 or 500 hours is to give you the skills to be able to deliver the class but that's what a that's what a primary fitness certification is also doing. It's giving you the understanding of body awareness and what you need to think about when you're delivering fitness or fitness information or kinesthetic information to a user.

Jayne  25:00

Yeah, and the fitness instructor had that. Yeah, they've got it, they've done it. So they would come to me, they would do a two day course. And I would teach them the physical postures, but you have to prescribe those postures from the perspective of fitness. So it's got to be a strength and endurance and flexibility. And it has to be taught in the language of fitness. There's no meditation. There's none of the more esoteric parts of yoga involved at all.

Will:  25:28

I have to admit that I have, I've gone in and out of yoga. In my life, I've done the kind of years where I've made sort of one or two classes a week, I've never really gelled with the more kind of mind body transcendental side of it. I just make I've never felt like I always feel like a bit of a fraud when I'm, when I'm doing that kind of thing. But the poses themselves are really like.

Jayne  25:50

Great. I know. I agree. I agree with you and I was like that for perhaps well, first off, 22 years old now for at least 17 years, I was like you. And now I'm that person that I used to laugh at.

Will:  26:08

Really. So you found yourself migrating back into the mind body element or the sort of mindfulness?

Jayne  26:16

Yeah, everything, the breath. I mean, there's so much of it. I don't like the received wisdom of yoga. I don't like the jargon of yoga. I still think fitness outweighs it in so many levels.

Will:  26:31

When you say received wisdom of yoga. I'm curious. I want to hold on that for a little bit longer. What what what do you mean as an example of that?

Jayne  26:38

Well, if you go on a traditional course you learn there's so many texts from yoga. So one of the you that they the Patanjali is this, this figurehead of yoga, but we don't know whether this was a person whether it was a beast, we don't know whether this person is very much like the Bible. We've we affect this information, but we don't know whether it actually is right.

Will:  27:06

Yeah, that's really interesting. So I don't know any of this history. This is all quite interesting to me.

Jayne  27:10

Yeah, the history of it is so far reaching because it crosses continents and time. Yeah. And if I'm given that information, I'll read it. And I might find it interesting. But it's not something that will ever say this is what yoga is. And this is where it came from. Unless I've got a certain degree of evidence. Yeah. Or that it's relatable in class. No one cares what Patangali is, no one cares.

Will:  27:38

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Jayne  27:39

I always remember and this the this this thing of teaching in Sanskrit and the use of the Sanskrit language, I was teaching the Reebok club, and I've got a guy in and unusually, this guy could not do a tricep dip, men just can do tricep dips. It's natural for them. But you must have done it at school. I don't know. But you just do it well, but he dropped his hips. So I went over to show him and he went through you mean a chaturanga? And I said, Do you know that in Sanskrit, Chaturanga means choc ice? We've got these ice creams. I didn't know if you had them. You know, like ice creams that are covered in chocolate. 

Will:  28:24

Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Jayne  28:25

And that's what choc ice is. 

Will:  28:27

Yeah. And that's what Chaturanga means?

Jayne  28:30

Yeah. I said, Do you know that English means choc ice? And he went, Oh, my God, I didn't know that. And I went, it doesn't! And that is why..

Will:  28:39

I've got to say you totally got me with that.

Jayne  28:43

I think it means crocodile. It's crocodile. Yeah. But you know what I mean? That's why we don't use it. You have no idea what your repeating.

Will:  28:53

Hook, line and sinker for that one, Jayne.

Jayne  28:55

Oh, well, I'm gonna say I had a point, didn't I? But yeah, it's this this whole thing of yoga, this thing that we're told that we have to use this language and this history is this and this means this and the jargon of it. I find quite bizarre. And but I think it's this version of keeping it real and talking to people in a language that they understand.

Will:  29:17

Okay, so that much of your approach to yoga has stayed the same in terms of the keeping it in a fitness context and using language that the average person the average fitness user that may have been to another type of class would understand. But you brought more of the is it would you say spirituality or do you think it's more like mind body mindfulness?

Jayne  29:36

Well, no, I've brought that into my practice. Fresstyle Fitness Yoga still stays quite sterile in that. And anyone who takes the program know, the term mindfulness comes in because again, it's the John Kabat Zinn is quite modern. But no, no, there's no there's none of that.

Will:  29:57

Okay, none of it in freestyle finished yoga, but what what you encourage you to bring it back into your practice, I'm curious.

Jayne  30:02

Because I just love it, but you get bitten, I'll give you a full answer.

Will:  30:07

Even after all those years of practicing the modality.

Jayne  30:12

I can't give you a full answer. And the other the great, besides me, of yoga, this is now how I class myself talking about ego less. But a lot of the greats of yoga, say, for example, Iyengar on record is saying, get the physical postures, right, and the rest will follow. But if you want to do true flow, or true yoga, then the breath has to become important, you can't get any further until you sought the breath out. And when you sought the breath out, you start to work on the energy processes, because it naturally happens to you. So I became inquisitive about that. And then meditation became a bit of a passion of mine. So yeah, the things that make yoga great all became of interest to me, and perhaps, you know, 17 years of doing just the physical postures is enough, I wanted more. Yeah. And the things that yoga offers, you just go hand in hand with being amazing.

Will:  31:18

And no, well I was getting. I was going to say it's like, it's always interesting when someone as a, when someone has been doing something for a long time, yet is open enough to kind of allow themselves to find a new understanding of that thing that they're doing. And I was just gonna say that that kind of leads us nicely into what I wanted to talk to you about, and what we sort of spoke prior to doing the podcast about which is how to bring that kind of extra ordinaryness into your teacher. So let's, let's move on to that. Because we've been talking for a while I could talk for a whole lot longer on kind of history of fitness and I'm sensing that I'm sensing that. I'm gonna pull this back, because I want to keep this at at a tight, tight, tight time link. So when when we talked about this, and we talked about, like, what's something that you think would be really useful for our listeners to hear and our listeners are obviously Group Fitness Instructors and Group Fitness enthusiasts. And you talked about being extraordinary. Now, tell me what you mean by extraordinary, because I think you had a specific meaning in mind when you said that.

32:18

Yeah, and it's moving away from, let's come back to that word zeitgeist, it's that moving away from that need to fit in to what everyone else is doing, what you perceive everyone else is doing. You teach without question, you talk without question, you do things without question. And it's bringing in the ability to stand up for yourself and question and say no, and fall on your face and get back up with pride, rather than being embarrassed that you may or may not be as good as or the same as everyone else. So a big example, where I learned to do it quite well is taking yoga, and I was speaking to Adele Anderson, I'm sure you may know her. She was a huge Les Mills person. She said, I'm just happy bastardizing yoga. And that's exactly what I did. And I was treated like that. The yoga people hated me. But you know, what we went through what I went through the abuse. And it's having the courage to say, actually, I'm doing this for the right reasons and I'm on a learning curve, and I'm on a journey, and I want to keep changing things. And that does make you extra ordinary, because not everyone wants to do that. But what I want for the fitness instructor is that when you get up in front of a group of people, and you say the exact same person as the exact same things as the person, the next teacher and the teacher before you, there's nothing extraordinary about that. And what happens is, and it's the reason that people buy into the product, not the instructor anymore.

Will:  34:15

Yeah, yeah, I have to like this is this is something that we've talked about a lot on this podcast. So obviously, like I come from a pre choreography background, I mean, I'm a New Zealander, and I started teaching Les Mills and Les Mills is kind of the sort of the biggest global company for creating a product that is then sort of filtered down. With SH1FT what we do is pretty different, I think, from my experiences with Les Mills, in that we want to create a pre designed workout that takes the time away from the instructor so that they can kind of they can just grab our app and go and teach a class but we're really not prescriptive when it comes to how the delivery is or modifications that you do in front of you or if you want to change the workout that we've given because the people in front of you are different. And I think that that is important and Something that instructors have become much more aware of since the pandemic when they kind of had to rebrand themselves a little and maybe had to step away from their comfort zone of teaching that that name class in a gym where they could kind of just turn up and do it. And so it's something we've talked about on this podcast as podcasts was born in the in the lockdowns, the pandemic is a bit of a how to guide on negotiating your way through. And so we talked a lot about digital. What what do you say if if you're an instructor and I'm your I'm an instructor of a load of different types of classes, some of them are pre choreographed, some of them are freestyle, or some of them are pre designed. And I want to know, what are the strategies that you would give me for stepping away from being ordinary and being extraordinary? What would you tell me, like what are the things that an Instructor should do? Take me step by step.

Jayne  35:50

So in this day and age, let's flip back to COVID. And what happened in COVID, is everything just came crashing down. And I love it. Because we talked about this when we met, what you did in COVID, is you started doing the podcast and you started talking and you started creating a new way forward. And I'm sure a hope out of podcast that is playing to your strengths and, and your new model. Yeah, and in effect what you do now, but it COVID killed or changed everything about our society, it damaged their health, it damaged that work ethic, it damaged, their finances, it damage, their income, it damage, mental health, as well as physical health. And all of these things are there for us to pick up. But what's happened with the instructor is they've come out of COVID. And a lot of instructors have gone back to wanting to teach classes where they taught before. Some people have capitalized upon the online and teaching online classes. But the biggest difficulty has been in taking the step forward and changing the model, changing the prescription to help a huge target audience that are imploding right now. And of course, that carries on from COVID, doesn't it to the Ukraine war. And what they say is the reason that we are going to be facing huge heights, in bills and that kind of thing. The instructor what to the instructor, the extra ordinary should be sitting there, in my opinion, looking at that, just six months ahead and planning accordingly. And instead of trying to fit their model, to what we're doing, to what to what is happening in society is to change the model and build something completely new while society is still in chaos. 

Will:  37:55

So what's the model that you think is the best is the best approach? Like if you if you were to if you were to give a rundown on what you think the the model that people should follow is bearing in mind, obviously, that different people will have different strengths to play to but is there a thing in mind that you're thinking of?

Jayne  38:11

Okay, so when it comes to, okay, let's talk about location. Yep, is the ability to change locations. So we've got, we can teaching clubs, we can teach in the community. And basically, now we can teach online, I think they're the three most accessible is to make sure you're doing a healthy balance of all those three things. So..

Will:  38:33

This is this is music to my ears, because obviously, I'm a big proponent of license free things that that instructors can use to teach anywhere. That's why we founded SH1FT it was like, like, do the training and then teach it anywhere, because I really care about people making money. 

Jayne  38:49

But that's what I was gonna say. So payment from the large operators, small operators is at an all time low. And

Will:  38:57

Especially when you take into account inflation, even more so like it's already low, numerically, like pay at Cannon City, for example, was much higher when I arrived in 2007. And when I stopped teaching there and sort of 2015.

Jayne  39:10

Cannon City's the big...When I first started teaching, which was late 80s. I was paid 22 pound 50 for a 45 minute class. And they gave me back to back.

Will:  39:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know that the pay is probably still that night. And like, I

Jayne  39:26

I think it's lower than that now. It wasn't nothing. It's nothing. Now it's a completely different company. Yeah. 

Will:  39:31

But in taking into account inflation like the pay...Like we've talked about this a lot like this is this is a factor that I think you and I probably both agree on, which is clubs. Club pay is not good. But clubs are also not good in terms of they all struggle during the pandemic and I don't think there's a club on Earth that doesn't wish they had the budget to pay their instructors more but I also think that they like there's so many other things that are pushing on them and the answer to me for being a successful instructor and having a business that you can actually survive on is to diversify and to not rely on clubs. I think I kind of think that's where you're going with that. So maybe you can pick it up.

Jayne  40:09

Well, yeah, no, I agree with you totally. But it's the it's the acceptance as well. You know, you bang your head, just like we'll talk about Matt Thraxton. I fought when Mac Thruxton booted me out the door, as you were walking in, I fought to get back. What I should have done is just gone see later. I wasted a year, because nothing ever goes back. So if the money is not enough in the clubs, walk away, but the other problem now is setting up in the community, all of the community centers are tripling their room rent aren't they?. Because of the bills going up. That's gonna kill so many instructors. If you're teaching, you used to be able to take between five and 10 people and come away with 2 pound 50 and saying that's okay. That's not going to happen anymore, is it? Yeah. And a lot of people, a lot of instructors won't won't weather this. So we have to find somewhere else. Online is that way, if you can get the people but then there has to be a somewhere else. And then they comes in with a something else, there has to be something else. Because step aerobics, combat, all the things we teaching are not necessarily transferable when David Lloyds is still doing that really well. So then we have to re-educate and tweak what we're doing. So you know, people don't have as much money, their mental health is bad, their physical health is bad, their spiritual health is bad. There's other things that we can start to put in and change the shape of our classes.

Will:  41:44

And so what like, tell me a bit about that, what like, what, what are those elements that you think an instructor could look at adding if they're someone's listening to this right now? And they're already thinking, okay, I teach a couple of couple of club classes. I teach a bit in the community, I have an online proposition. And this the end, what's the what's the other things that you think they could be thinking about in order to continue to serve their populations and diversify their offer?

Jayne  42:09

Okay, so my biggest one is breath work. I cannot believe that breath work has not become the new boom industry. Because it it just touches on all of those things that are collapsing in our society.

Will:  42:26

Breathwork really had a moment, sort of not long before the pandemic, I actually went to Ministry of Sound in London and did like, a breath work class. I can't remember the guys name. And it was we were all like, we're in the Ministry of Sound, which is iconic nightclub in Elephant Castle in London. And it was in 2019. So it was the year before, it was the year before the pandemic. And like, interestingly, it's I haven't really heard so much about breathwork post pandemic as the recovery. But you're you're absolutely right. And that all of the things that it brings, and the reason that it was gaining traction are all things that we need more of not less.

Jayne  43:02

Yeah, we do when you know, we need it. I know we need it. And yeah, it's not taken shape yet. And it needs to take shape. And of course, it's something that's very easily taught online. It's, it's teaching the teacher to workshop and start talking to people rather than at them. Yeah. And I mean, it can actually change lives, then you touch on things like mindfulness and meditation, which is a skill. That's very different. We all breathe, I don't think you have to go on a course. Or to become better at that. And then be extraordinary. Don't think I can't teach breathwork, because I'm not a breathwork coach. Yeah, you know, we all we have to do is be two steps ahead of the people that you're teaching. Learn three different breath techniques, and pass them on. Yeah. So it's that kind of thing. What else could they do? Outdoor walking, it's been done before we did a run walk program with Nike, just take things that are more simplistic that you can teach people to do that, that that go into play into the next six months when people are mentally, physically exhausted, and financially drained.

Will:  44:19

Yeah, this is something that we've actually talked about on this podcast. And it's a recurring, it's a recurring theme and a recurring factor. And I think it's because a lot of a lot of the guests I have on are focused around, like, how does an instructor make money and I think working for a gym is great. I think that teaching at a big gym is super fun. And it's really nice to be able to turn up and teach. But I agree with you that in order to make it successful and meaningful, long term, you can't rely on somebody else to control your career like right because as you said, when you're at Cannon's. Like someone can come in that has different ideas to you, and then they can just disappear. Whereas if you're at least somewhat in control of a couple of the lanes of your career, it doesn't matter so much if one of those lanes closes down for a while or or shots. But one of the things that we've talked about a lot, and that I am hearing, and what you're saying is that we sometimes focus so much on all the things we did before. And that 20% of people that were into exercise before who have all come back, and it's widening and widening the need to the 80% of people who maybe have an inkling that they need to focus more on their health post pandemic, but don't really know how to do and are a little bit intimidated as to how to get started. Everybody walks, right: I saw on social media, a she's actually a friend of mine, but I saw her social media account. And she was asking her followers like, what if you could only do one exercise for the rest of your life? What would you do? And people were like dancing, HIIT, all this sort of stuff. And my answer was like, walk, because walking, walking is the one thing that I know, I'm going to be able to do, hopefully, fingers crossed, until I'm very old. Whereas I know that my ability to do dance and high intensity and weightlifting, all of that is going to go at some point. But if walking is the one thing that will always be there, and it's the one thing that is not accessible to everybody, obviously, I feel very grateful for my, my continued kind of spinal health when I've had a couple of scares, but it's the thing that can bring people in, and it feels like fitness instructors could focus on that kind of thing more as a way of bringing additional members into their communities.

Jayne  46:21

And be extraordinary, learn how to package it. And if you think you don't need it, let me tell you, I have a horse, and I keep my horse a quarter of a mile just over from the yard. So that's half a mile walk to take the horse out and pick it back or vice versa. And people on my yard orchestrate, one person can take the car so that they don't even have to walk one...They don't get it.

Will:  46:50

My dad, my dad is a, I've talked about I think I've talked about on the show before he's a type two diabetic. And I have tried every single thing. And the one thing I just really asked him to do every time is just walk, all you have to do is walk just get your steps in per day, don't expect him to exercise. Don't even mind if you struggle to change your diet, because I'm aware that he had a diet in the war and it's it's really hard, but just do some more walking. Because if you if you live in a big city like I do, it's very easy to walk because it's very hard to do anything else. You have to get to public transport, or you have to pay exorbitant fees for cabs, whereas walking is free. But a lot of people like our societies, and our cities have been designed away from that kind of thing and towards cars. And I understand why people use their cars. But yeah, if you can put a bit of walking into your life, which is the best thing ever. And if you're a fitness instructor, getting your community to walk more is a really great sort of entry point into getting them to do other stuff with you. Yes, absolutely true.

Jayne  47:50

And of course, then you get into their psyche and their mental health easily. And I can tell you for sure what happens when you don't walk, which is where my dad is now, you can't walk. 

Will:  48:02

Exactly. 

Jayne  48:03

He can't walk.

Will:  48:05

And the best precaution against, well putting it off for as long as possible is to keep doing it right? Move it or lose it.

Jayne  48:11

Yeah, yeah, if you don't use it, you lose it, it's a great, the old mantra is just the best.

Will:  48:17

It's funny that I do have to say, speaking of older people, my husband's grandmother has a, a whole lot of sayings. And it is as as I've spent more and more time with her, I realized that all of those old adages that I used to roll my eyes out when I was in my early 20s. They're almost all true. I'm trying to think of an exact one, but you know, use it or lose it. And you know, they sort of all of those things that you hear they're really, really true.

Jayne  48:47

It's true. And the worst thing is when you hear them coming out your mouth. Yeah.

Will:  48:51

I think I think, Jay that when you're at a level of experience, that, that we both have to you can't really help yourself, but but do it right? Anyway, we've always been talking for an hour. And I have loved hearing your history and a little bit about what people can do to be extraordinary. There's certainly some themes that I've talked about before. So I always like it when guests come on and kind of confirm the thoughts that me and other guests have talked about because it means that we're onto something because all of us can be wrong. Before we go, I'd really love for you to tell our listeners a little bit about sort of how they can find more from you or where they can go if they're interested in any of the stuff you've talked about. Like potentially like how to find out more about breathwork, that kind of thing.

Jayne  49:36

Okay, so my website is groupxtraining.com.

Will:  49:43

We'll put a link to it in the show notes so that people can just...

Jayne  49:47

Yeah, so on there, you can do all of your level two, lots of level three and level four qualifications but also, there's quite a lot of CPD, there is actually a breathing 101 priced at, I think it's 20 quid at the moment price. 

Will:  50:03

There we go. 

Jayne  50:05

Yeah. So that you can just get everything you need to know. And then there's another one about, you know, redefining the core all this nonsense of pulling your abs in...That's the kind of thing that I've made a history of just just re...saying different things to what everyone else says. And thinking about what you're actually saying to people and telling them to do. And accepting that is ridiculous. And learning to laugh at the things that come out of your mouth and ridiculous not hanging on to them and going oh, it must be true. I can't do anything if I don't all my abs on, switch my core on. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. So there's lots of that. I teach online at gxtstudio.com And I'm on social media as jaynenicholls and GXT all over the place. Even Tik Tok.

Will:  50:55

Okay, so you're ahead of me. I, like, I have to say I have been holding off Tiktok. And I know that I have to go there. Because I'm seeing all those graphs on my LinkedIn and social media and everything saying that that's where that's where all the discoverability is and where everyone's going. I just don't want to.

Jayne  51:13

This is what we need to do a podcast on. You're the second person today. I don't want to. Yeah. And this, these rules that we've created that we all have to do on social media are bizarre, because you don't want to, it's not gonna work. Is it? 

Will:  51:29

Yeah, totally. I'm like, Oh, I don't want another social media platform that I mean, not since not suggesting that I don't waste a whole lot of time on the existing ones. But I know that I don't really want to be there. I just wanted anyway, that you're right. That's a podcast topic for another day. I have to get a guest on to talk about how easy it is to create a TikTok because I think that everyone that is listening to this who's not currently on it probably has the same approach as me, which is like I need to be there. But I don't want to.

Jayne  51:57

I can tell you who to get on now. Rachel Holmes.

Will:  52:02

TikTok queen?

Jayne  52:04

Social media queen, queen of many things. But social media. She is an enigma when it comes to indulging it and keeping it going with a passion. She's the only person I know who does it.

Will:  52:19

Rachel and I have been talking about getting on this podcast and what to talk about. So I might just have to hit her up with that topic now.

Jayne  52:24

Yeah. I've set her up. Again.

Will:  52:28

Well Jayne, thank you very, very much for taking the time to talk to us today. We'll put links to all of the information you just talked about in the show notes so people can search you out if they want to find out more. I know that I will probably see you hopefully at a live fitness event once you're back on at some time in the future. But thank you very much for joining us today.

Jayne  52:45

Thank you for having me. It's been delightful chatting with you. Great fun.

Will:  52:50

Cheers.  Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.